Discussion:
[9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
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dexen deVries
2012-09-14 13:12:18 UTC
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Seems a well-meaning developer sort of re-invented Acme

--
dexen deVries

[[[↓][→]]]

I'm sorry that this was such a long lett­er, but I didn't have time to write
you a short one. -- Bla­ise Pasc­al
Charles Forsyth
2012-09-14 13:52:03 UTC
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Probably never heard of Acme.
Post by dexen deVries
Seems a well-meaning developer sort of re-invented Acme
http://youtu.be/bUR_eUVcABg
--
dexen deVries
[[[↓][→]]]
I'm sorry that this was such a long lett­er, but I didn't have time to
write
you a short one. -- Bla­ise Pasc­al
Lucio De Re
2012-09-14 14:07:06 UTC
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Post by Charles Forsyth
Probably never heard of Acme.
The demo looks impressive, though. I didn't follow it very well, it
was way too fast and full of references to concepts that evidently
haven't reached my corner of Dark Africa yet :-)

Still, Oberon had all that a long time ago, if memory isn't betraying
me.

++L
Charles Forsyth
2012-09-14 14:10:45 UTC
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Probably never heard of Oberon either.
Post by Lucio De Re
Still, Oberon had all that a long time ago, if memory isn't betraying
me.
erik quanstrom
2012-09-14 14:19:00 UTC
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Post by Charles Forsyth
Probably never heard of Oberon either.
neither is knowledge of oberon ubiquitous among 9fans, who may
not realize that acme itself is a copy.

- erik
Charles Forsyth
2012-09-14 14:26:25 UTC
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"Copy" is a little strong: inspired by, certainly, by way of help/help,
but there's an amazing difference in the structure of acme as "text editor
as file server"
with many independent clients accessing it through the file system.
Oberon had a more conventional module "plug-in" structure within a single
process.
Acme's user interface is also more strictly text-oriented, and streamlined
the mouse conventions.
Post by erik quanstrom
neither is knowledge of oberon ubiquitous among 9fans, who may
not realize that acme itself is a copy.
Jack Johnson
2012-09-14 16:48:40 UTC
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Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant.

-Jack
Anssi Porttikivi
2012-09-14 20:00:13 UTC
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Note that Oberon the OS was a stated influence of Ron Pike et. al. Even in Go, type embedding and resistance to class hierarchies relates back to Oberon, the language.
Post by Jack Johnson
Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant.
-Jack
Anssi Porttikivi
2012-09-14 20:02:05 UTC
Permalink
Typos by iPhone. Forgive me, Rob.

t. Anssi
Post by Anssi Porttikivi
Note that Oberon the OS was a stated influence of Ron Pike et. al. Even in Go, type embedding and resistance to class hierarchies relates back to Oberon, the language.
Post by Jack Johnson
Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant.
-Jack
Nick LaForge
2012-09-14 21:58:17 UTC
Permalink
Speak of the devil....

"Good artists copy, great artists steal."

-Pablo Picasso^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HSteven
Jobs^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HSamsung Ltd.(?)

This message: -some blogger^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HNick LaForge

Typos by me. Sent from my meEgo (alphabet button invention included).
(Don't) forgive me, Elop.
Post by Anssi Porttikivi
Typos by iPhone. Forgive me, Rob.
t. Anssi
Post by Anssi Porttikivi
Note that Oberon the OS was a stated influence of Ron Pike et. al. Even in
Go, type embedding and resistance to class hierarchies relates back to
Oberon, the language.
Post by Jack Johnson
Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant.
-Jack
hiro
2012-09-14 23:15:53 UTC
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forgive me, mother, for reading this mailinglist.
Matthew Veety
2012-09-14 23:28:50 UTC
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Post by hiro
forgive me, mother, for reading this mailinglist.
I feel as though our mothers have already abandoned us for this list.
Charles Forsyth
2012-09-17 18:24:09 UTC
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And this just in:

http://research.swtch.com/acme?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+hnycombinator+%28HN+-+hnycombinator%29
Charles Forsyth
2012-09-17 18:26:45 UTC
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And a cleaner link to that: http://research.swtch.com/acme
...
Anssi Porttikivi
2012-09-18 06:03:18 UTC
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Oh, god, this is what we have longed for almost 20 years. I always thought I should do this kind of video. Thank you Russ!

t. Anssi
Post by Charles Forsyth
And a cleaner link to that: http://research.swtch.com/acme
...
Ethan Grammatikidis
2012-10-25 14:28:09 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 14 Sep 2012 08:48:40 -0800
Post by Jack Johnson
Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant.
-Jack
It's still around in AOS form where it can run native or as a
user-space program under other OSs. I used it to try out someone else's
work and didn't really find the UI very elegant. In particular I
couldn't copy text from the compiler error window, which I thought was
desperately bad. Anyway, apart from that it worked; middle-clicking to
compile and to launch the program was ok, and the OpenGL program I was
trying out ran very smoothly.

The only link I seem to have kept is http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/
--
This is obviously some strange usage of the word
"simple" that I was previously unaware of.
Dan Cross
2012-10-25 14:58:39 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:28 AM, Ethan Grammatikidis
Post by Ethan Grammatikidis
Post by Jack Johnson
Even with it's "faults" (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant.
It's still around in AOS form where it can run native or as a
user-space program under other OSs. I used it to try out someone else's
work and didn't really find the UI very elegant. In particular I
couldn't copy text from the compiler error window, which I thought was
desperately bad. Anyway, apart from that it worked; middle-clicking to
compile and to launch the program was ok, and the OpenGL program I was
trying out ran very smoothly.
The only link I seem to have kept is http://www.ocp.inf.ethz.ch/
Hindsight is always 20/20.

When I first used Oberon 20 years ago, it had this amazing liberating
feeling to it; a graphical demonstration of sorting algorithms?
Brilliant! (I was in high school. Our "Computer Science" class was
taught using Turbo Pascal on IBM PCs; the textbook had a picture of an
IBM 4381 on the cover. Luckily, I managed to persuade the system
administrators at the local university into giving me accounts on most
of the major systems so I could use C, Unix and VMS.)

My point is that it's so easy to forget that these sorts of statements
about the power, simplicity and elegance of things past carry with
them a context that is usually not explicitly articulated. If you
came to Oberon from some primitive computing environment (like, say,
PCs or something) then it was indeed fun and amazingly elegant. That
said, I wouldn't want to go back to running it on a SPARCstation 1
with 16 megs of RAM, a 200MB disk, and a 17 inch black and white CRT.
It's easy to look back and say to oneself, "wow, that wasn't as cool
as I remembered it being..." but that doesn't change that, at the
time, it *was* that cool because of the context.

- Dan C.

Hugo Rivera
2012-09-14 14:25:51 UTC
Permalink
I knew it because I read the paper :-)
Post by erik quanstrom
Post by Charles Forsyth
Probably never heard of Oberon either.
neither is knowledge of oberon ubiquitous among 9fans, who may
not realize that acme itself is a copy.
- erik
--
Hugo
michaelian ennis
2012-09-17 12:51:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by erik quanstrom
neither is knowledge of oberon ubiquitous among 9fans, who may
not realize that acme itself is a copy.
Isn't even that a derivation of the window system from PARC? Oak I believe?

Ian
michaelian ennis
2012-09-18 13:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Ah. Cedar.
http://research.swtch.com/acme.pdf

Ian
Aram Hăvărneanu
2012-09-15 12:51:02 UTC
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Post by Charles Forsyth
Probably never heard of Acme.
Great, the idea must be good then.
--
Aram Hăvărneanu
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