[9fans] [RQ:] SATA HD 2+ TB native recommendations

[Peter A. Cejchan]

Hi, folks,

I am about to buy an internal HD for my native Plan9 box.
I need 2TB or more, can anyone recommend me a model that is tested to work?
Native, not p9p.

Also, can anyone recommend a hi-res video card, SXGA+ or better, 24-bit
depth?
I am aware of the "Supported PC Hardware" page, of course, however, I would
appreciate your personal experience.

Thanks, best regards,
++pac

[David du Colombier]

Post by Peter A. Cejchan
I need 2TB or more, can anyone recommend me a model that is tested to work?

I'm currently using some Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM001 in one of my
file servers.

[Peter A. Cejchan]

Thanks, David! Does it run BellLabs Plan9, or does it require Erik's 9atom?

Post by David du Colombier

Post by Peter A. Cejchan
I need 2TB or more, can anyone recommend me a model that is tested to

work?
I'm currently using some Seagate Barracuda ST2000DM001 in one of my
file servers.
--
David du Colombier

[David du Colombier]

Post by Peter A. Cejchan
Thanks, David! Does it run BellLabs Plan9, or does it require Erik's 9atom?

I run Plan 9 from Bell Labs.

[dexen deVries]

Post by David du Colombier

Post by Peter A. Cejchan
Thanks, David! Does it run BellLabs Plan9, or does it require Erik's 9atom?

I run Plan 9 from Bell Labs.

Plan 9 from Bell Labs from Bell Labs :^)

[steve]

just a straw poll, anyone here use arcnet or know of any significant modern use,

my employer uses it for data comms in TV stations, but this is becoming
superseded by ethernet these days, are we the last bastion?

-Steve

[Matthew Veety]

It seems so. I haven't heard it being used in my lifetime.

Post by steve
just a straw poll, anyone here use arcnet or know of any significant modern use,
my employer uses it for data comms in TV stations, but this is becoming
superseded by ethernet these days, are we the last bastion?
-Steve

[l***@proxima.alt.za]

Post by steve
my employer uses it for data comms in TV stations, but this is becoming
superseded by ethernet these days, are we the last bastion?

How do they propose to maintain it when the equipment starts failing?

++L

[Steve Simon]

Post by l***@proxima.alt.za
How do they propose to maintain it when the equipment starts failing?

Not sure what you mean, but we run arcnet in bus mode (no central hub), on
75 ohm coax with modified PCI cards using 75ohm terminations - 75ohm coax
abounds in TV stations.

The advantage of this is we can use existing Video wiring for control systems,
and there is no single point of failure.

-Steve

[hiro]

In spite of ARCNET's deterministic operation and historic suitability
for real-time environments such as process control, the general
availability of switched gigabit Ethernet and Quality of service
capabilities in Ethernet switches has all but eliminated ARCNET today.

However, because of its simple, robust nature, ARCNET controllers are
still sold and used in industrial, embedded, and automotive
applications.

they say it's pretty deterministic. good read from wikipedia.

[Charles Forsyth]

Post by hiro
they say it's pretty deterministic. good read from wikipedia.

I was disappointed to discover that ARCNET did not, in fact, send packets
by shooting huge electrical arcs from sender to receiver, in the manner of
a proper science fiction film.

[David Leimbach]

Sent from my iPhone

Post by hiro
they say it's pretty deterministic. good read from wikipedia.

I was disappointed to discover that ARCNET did not, in fact, send packets by shooting huge electrical arcs from sender to receiver, in the manner of a proper science fiction film.

Teslanet?

[l***@proxima.alt.za]

Post by hiro
However, because of its simple, robust nature, ARCNET controllers are
still sold and used in industrial, embedded, and automotive
applications.

Sounds positively anachronistic. Thanks for the clarification.

++L

[erik quanstrom]

Post by l***@proxima.alt.za

Post by hiro
However, because of its simple, robust nature, ARCNET controllers are
still sold and used in industrial, embedded, and automotive
applications.

Sounds positively anachronistic. Thanks for the clarification.

and so is rs-232. usb is the way of the future. :-) i say this with
toungue in cheek, of course. old does not lie along the useful
axis.

- erik

[Calvin Morrison]

Post by erik quanstrom

Post by l***@proxima.alt.za

Post by hiro
However, because of its simple, robust nature, ARCNET controllers are
still sold and used in industrial, embedded, and automotive
applications.

Sounds positively anachronistic. Thanks for the clarification.

and so is rs-232. usb is the way of the future. :-) i say this with
toungue in cheek, of course. old does not lie along the useful
axis.

rs-232/422/485 has a lot going for it, more so than usb. Well, at least
until usb-optical cables become cheaper than copper, and even then you've
got component costs that are more expensive. Moving to ethernet at least
opens up the ability to use MODBUS TCP.
-jas

Anyone look at the website? Kinda cool

http://www.arcnet.com/

[hiro]

yeah, an other quote from that website:

Designers write their own application layer to meet their particular
needs and frequently do not advertise the fact that ARCNET is being
used in their product. ARCNET receives no name recognition, but is
frequently the network of choice in embedded applications. It is
hidden from the user, but with over 22 million ARCNET nodes sold gives
credibility that ARCNET is indeed popular.

[Calvin Morrison]

Post by hiro
Designers write their own application layer to meet their particular
needs and frequently do not advertise the fact that ARCNET is being
used in their product. ARCNET receives no name recognition, but is
frequently the network of choice in embedded applications. It is
hidden from the user, but with over 22 million ARCNET nodes sold gives
credibility that ARCNET is indeed popular.

It makes me think that it might be congruent to unix in this fashion.
Every day users have no idea what unix servers are, but the internet
runs on it.

Apparently ARCNET used so much, but we never even hear about it! The
silent hero...

[Jeff Sickel]

Post by erik quanstrom

Post by l***@proxima.alt.za

Post by hiro
However, because of its simple, robust nature, ARCNET controllers are
still sold and used in industrial, embedded, and automotive
applications.

Sounds positively anachronistic. Thanks for the clarification.

and so is rs-232. usb is the way of the future. :-) i say this with
toungue in cheek, of course. old does not lie along the useful
axis.

rs-232/422/485 has a lot going for it, more so than usb. Well, at least
until usb-optical cables become cheaper than copper, and even then you've
got component costs that are more expensive. Moving to ethernet at least
opens up the ability to use MODBUS TCP.

-jas

[l***@proxima.alt.za]

Post by Steve Simon
Not sure what you mean, but we run arcnet in bus mode (no central hub), on
75 ohm coax with modified PCI cards using 75ohm terminations - 75ohm coax
abounds in TV stations.

The cost of maintaining such a system must look prohibitive when
compared with off-the-shelf products. And then you need device
drivers for every generation of OS that comes along. I'd be at least
curious as to how these costs are justified.

I mean, I have tens of kilograms of dated network equipment, including
the odd lumps of coax cabling, but no ways could I find a practical
use for it, much as the community I'm in has no funds for more modern
stuff, so we just do without :-(

++L

[steve]

Post by l***@proxima.alt.za

Post by Steve Simon
Not sure what you mean, but we run arcnet in bus mode (no central hub), on
75 ohm coax with modified PCI cards using 75ohm terminations - 75ohm coax
abounds in TV stations.

The cost of maintaining such a system must look prohibitive when
compared with off-the-shelf products. And then you need device
drivers for every generation of OS that comes along. I'd be at least
curious as to how these costs are justified.

not really.

contemporary controls, who manufacture the pci arcnet cards
supply the drivers for windows. we have drivers for the com20020
NIC for our embedded os, and the chips a as cheap as... well, old chips.

our bridge and cards are just a different software on a fairly standard
modular card which fits in our 3u rack system.

if anyone wants detail contact me off-list, this is already creating too much noise.

my real reason for asking was to gauge interest in a plan9 arcnet driver
as i am perfectly placed to write one, but it seems there is no interest at all.
this is a problem thought, i have plenty else to do :-)

Post by l***@proxima.alt.za
I mean, I have tens of kilograms of dated network equipment, including
the odd lumps of coax cabling, but no ways could I find a practical
use for it, much as the community I'm in has no funds for more modern
stuff, so we just do without :-(
++L

[Nicolas Bercher]

Post by Peter A. Cejchan
Hi, folks,
I am about to buy an internal HD for my native Plan9 box.
I need 2TB or more, can anyone recommend me a model that is tested to work?
Native, not p9p.
Also, can anyone recommend a hi-res video card, SXGA+ or better, 24-bit
depth?
I am aware of the "Supported PC Hardware" page, of course, however, I would
appreciate your personal experience.
Thanks, best regards,
++pac

On my side, I use WD Green Caviar 1.5TB HDD although I do not recommend
them for multiple reasons (they report 512B physical blocks size
instead of 4k, they fail or slow down a lot when copying a full disk to
another one, at once).

Nicolas

[erik quanstrom]

Post by Peter A. Cejchan
Hi, folks,
I am about to buy an internal HD for my native Plan9 box.
I need 2TB or more, can anyone recommend me a model that is tested to work?
Native, not p9p.

i'm not going to recommend any drives. but i haven't
heard any complaints about segate, western digital or
hitachi *enterprise* drives in a while. this doesn't mean
other drives aren't good. i just know nothing about 'em.

here are some example of drives i might look at were i
looking for one
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148825
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822236352

it's important to match the product code. one letter difference in
WD2000FYYZ and you might have a bad drive. also the
"video" drives really are special purpose drives.

Post by Peter A. Cejchan
On my side, I use WD Green Caviar 1.5TB HDD although I do not recommend
them for multiple reasons (they report 512B physical blocks size
instead of 4k, they fail or slow down a lot when copying a full disk to
another one, at once).

4k drives only work in 9atom. and they're not recommended
as a boot drive.

i've found it hard to tell, even reading the data sheets if a drive
is 512 or 4k. but many drives have the lba number on the sticker. and
for example 3907029168 corresponds to 512-byte sectors, 2T.

3907029168*512/1000^4 = 2.0

- erik

[Nicolas Bercher]

Post by erik quanstrom
4k drives only work in 9atom. and they're not recommended
as a boot drive.

Do you mean 4k drives that reports 4k block size or 4k drives that
report 512B?

Post by erik quanstrom
i've found it hard to tell, even reading the data sheets if a drive
is 512 or 4k. but many drives have the lba number on the sticker. and
for example 3907029168 corresponds to 512-byte sectors, 2T.
3907029168*512/1000^4 = 2.0
- erik

My WD hdd hosts a "Plan 9 from Bell Labs" from Bell Labs, it is a
WDC WD15EARS-00Z. I'm 99% sure* it is a 4k hdd that reports 512B block
sizes. And when I installed the system, I did all the partitioning by
hand to ensure alignment for every Plan 9 partition. It was quite a
pain.

I didn't take a look seriously to the sticker, I will next time the
box will be opened.


Nicolas

--
* If I remember well, I did some tests with misaligned partitions
under Linux, R/W operations were so slow...! To me, it's hard to be
sure whether it's a 512B or 4kB hdd without performing some tests, like
this.

[erik quanstrom]

Post by Nicolas Bercher

Post by erik quanstrom
4k drives only work in 9atom. and they're not recommended
as a boot drive.

Do you mean 4k drives that reports 4k block size or 4k drives that
report 512B?

i understand the terminology to be
4k drive 4k physical sectors, 4k logical (reported to os) sectors
512e drive 4k physical sectors, 512b logical sectors

Post by Nicolas Bercher
My WD hdd hosts a "Plan 9 from Bell Labs" from Bell Labs, it is a
WDC WD15EARS-00Z. I'm 99% sure* it is a 4k hdd that reports 512B block
sizes. And when I installed the system, I did all the partitioning by
hand to ensure alignment for every Plan 9 partition. It was quite a
pain.

that should work just fine. it can be pretty slow if ever
alignment gets off. some of these drives have a 1 sector
offset to help older versions of windows, so it's fiddly.

- erik